School referendum, vote no & keep your money

Mr. Veldcamp
I am trying to be professional, not be insulting, but you truly make it hard. Have you done any research into school crime? Are you aware nearly every single school district in Marion county has multiple if not dozens of Officers not two!! Are you aware that since 1990 there have been more then 85 yes that’s an eight and a five school shootings in the United States with a staggering 162 fatalities? 162 dead school kids and you are asking why we have police? Are you so sheltered to think that the crime that occurs north of countyline road is not goin to cross that little yellow stripe in it? Are you also not aware of the incident earlier this year where an armed gan came into a school and was only stopped because of the actions of a School officer? ( he died as a result of his poor decision making). You sir are out of touch with reality, you should not be involved at all with anything to so with the safety of our children. 80% of mass school shootings take place in schools just like ours. The Sheriff department does not have enough man power to control the school zones and you want then to take over patrolling, protection, and the investigations of crime at our school? If I send you personally, twenty dollars would you buy a clue with it? Or put it in your campaign fund.

For someone who is trying not to be insulting you certainly are doing a good job of it. Why the rage at me? I am just asking questions. I am not running for anything, are you so out of touch that you don’t even know the candidates that are running for school board? If you need to find out who they are, or their positions then you have come to the right place, you will find candidates who have submitted their positions in the form of articles plus you will find the video of the first, and soon the second candidate forum posted on this site. All of that was done at no taxpayer expense and no personal benefit to me. We make no money off this site (the ads have generated no revenue to date), so if you want to send me the twenty bucks, I’m up for it.

Jody
Are you or are you not running for the school board? I am under the impression you are. If not I retract my statement and apologize. As far as is this the best way to protect our children? Have you actualy done any research on the crimes, the number of schools who have officers, and how often incidents do occur that require immediate attention. It’s not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact. CG is the largest school in central Indiana that has the fewest number of officers. Why do you think every other school of this size has a police department? It can and sooner or later will happen at CG . Maybe no one will die, maybe it will be just someone walking around threatening people w/a gun. It is happening right now. Someone some place in CG schools has either brought a gun to school or has one in the car. This isn’t 1980 (even thought it occurrd then too) with bullying on the Internet, sexting, bullying in the class room, the availabilty of drugs and weapons now it is a matter of time. Not if but when. For you to suggest that we so not need the protection is asinine. That is why I have strong opinions about this. CG is lucky to have a real police chief in charge and an officer willing to go above and beyond. You with all your wisdom and experience want to take that away. There IS no other option. It is either have them and be thankful for them or be unprotected. A security guard can not do what they do. The Sheriff Dept. Does not have the man power or the desire to have someone there all the time. Stop your complaining and consider yourself lucky to have them. You will at somepoint regret the day they are not there. And when that day comes next year or in 10 years. I will not forget that you had a hand in getting rid of the only protection we have. If my child happens to be a victim because we do not have officers in and around the school it is people like you. Who are going to be held accountable. It’s called progress, look past the hick town mentality and open your eyes to what is on it’s way. CG has a good start on containing things until people like yourself enterfear with other people who actually had it right. Any idiot with a keyboard can publicly question anythings worth. I can stand infront of a microphone and ask ” do we really need so many teachers” if you don’t have a legitimate solution don’t open your mouth. There are two things a child should get in school. An education and protection while getting that education. Progressive thinking Jody, there are bad things that go bump in the night, and at school during the day too. Figured I would tell you that since you live in a cave and have no concept of what can and eventually will happen.

Can someone tell me who the CG police chief reports to? Isn’t it the school board?

Does that strike anyone else as odd – a police department whose chief is not electable by the people?

Once again everyone sorry for the typos. IPhone autocorrect does not always correct the direction i want. But I do believe my poin is still clear and still needs to be responded too. I will be more then happy to report the school shooting stats on this link
Since 1990 86 fatal school shootings in America
165 dead ( give or take) but you and others like you do not think we need full-time officers on scene.

Gone are the days of the good ole boy system?

Tony, do you even live in White River Township?

Look at the city of Greenwood. Look at county government. Look at the Bantam Football League. There’s lots of good old boy networks.

You’re making a case for why police officers need to be in schools. No one’s arguing that point. We all get that.

The debate is whether the JCSD could do the same job at a lower cost than the current CG PD. You’re not doing a very good job of making that point.

The JCSD could not patrol the schools more effectively than the CGPD. It’s not just a matter of money, it’s also a matter of response time. If a matter comes up in which an officer needs to respond, I would rather have someone who is likely already on school property than someone who may have to come from another part of Johnson Co. much further away. On that note, I’d also appreciate having someone who is more familiar with the schools and the students than someone from an outside department, who isn’t.

I just find it odd there’s a local police chief who reports to an assistant school superintendent, that’s all. Compared to a county sheriff who I elect and a city police chief responsible to elected city government, it just doesn’t seem to fit the pattern.

What in the training of CGPD officers makes them faster to respond to a situation than a JCSD officer stationed at the same place? Are the CGPD officers faster runners? Do they have Segways?

Pardon the sarcasm to make the point, but I’ve seen a lot of emotional arguments why the CGPD is nice-to-have around. Given the limited funding we’ve told our legislators we want our schools to have, nice-to-have’s need to be re-evaluated.

I hope all you people are voting against property tax caps in the Indiana Constitution. If you’re voting YES on the CG school referendum and YES on the property tax caps, I don’t think you’re voting very consistently.

Joe
I currently do not live in white river twnsp. My ex-wife does an my daughter goes to CG. I grew up there. I think that would give me a voice in all of this.
Jody and Joe
Considering the cost of a JC deputy to what we are all paying for school officer it would in fact cost all the tax payers more to have a dept on scene. The Sheriff department does NOT have extra officers laying around to put at schools. If you want one there it will cost you more because they will have to hire more. Guess who pays for it? I would rather pay the 30,000 for the school officer then the 40,000 for a deputy. Hey have the exact same training. Infact school officers go through training specifically for schools. A regular deputy does not have that training and bow you will have to pay again for that as well. That cost will be the tax payers male no mistake about it. You in essence will force everyone to pay more for the same services you are getting now. In what world does that make sense? The Sheriff department is NOT I’ll repeat NOT going to assign someone to the school. Don’t believe me? ASK them. Even if they did, they make more money, which mean you will pay more, they have take home cars they drive anyplace they want which means you will pay more for fuel. The benefits are crystal clear to me, same skills as a JCSD at less cost. Officers who want to do the job, not called one day and told “hey Ur a school cop now” which means, anyone? They will do a better job.
Joe it is exactly like a chief reporting to a mayor just on a different scale. Instead of a mayor you have the superintendent who the chief reports to. Who, is elected. The super does not medal in the day to day operations just like a Mayor does not. This is all basic stuff that does not take much thought if you actually do research or know anything about law enforcement. Consider yourself lucky and stop crying about spending money on something that is needed. It is not a luxury it is a necessity, bad things are goin to happen and you have two people who actually care and all you are doing is stirring a pot. God forbid if you are successful because you and people like you are risking lives.

Joe
I can’t get over your “nice to have” comment
It is ridiculous to say the least. Do you not pay attention to current events? Do you not see that about 2 or 3 times a year some child, or disgruntled adult comes into a school and kills people. This past year a man tries exactly that. A female school POLICE officer drew down on him while he was pointing his gun at the principal I believe, she got his attention got everyone out except her. She then was in a standoff with an armed gunman until he was distracted by other arriving officers at which point she shot and killed the suspect. Look it up it’s happening all over this country it will sooner or later hit home. You will be prepared for it or more innocent people will die. You cannot replace those officers at a cheaper price, they are working for bottom dollars now. They do it because they want to, you will have a very hard time finding two other cops willing to work go that amount of money let alone less. Why would they when they could go to JCSD and make 10-20 thousand more a year. Those two want to be at CG. Considered yourself blessed, and either come up with a realistic solution or stop yapping.
Here are the facts. CG needs on scene full time police officers.
Fact JCSD is not going to assign someone there
Fact if JCSD did it would cost more then CGPD
Fact your are lucky to have the ones you do. 1st because of the pay, 2nd because no other Cop would put up with a bunch of spoiled ungreatful parents who think they know what’s best, and how cops should do their job. You are probably one of those people who call in and complain on the cop who didnt signal when they changed lanes. In my world, if someone is willing to die for me or my child, a total stranger no less. The last thing I would do is a) try and get them fired or b) question what they are doing or why they are doing it. You and everyone like you should go up and thank those CGPD officers next time you see them. Then thank the next cop you see. And while you are at it thank a soldier too.

Tony, learn to read for comprehension. Seriously. I cannot say it any nicer.

I’ve never said that police officers at CGHS are “nice-to-have”. I said having those officers as part of a separate police department is a nice-to-have. There is a difference.

Jody and I have said this over & over, and you’re trying to act like we don’t want the school to have proper security.

Just settle down and READ what we’re saying.

Oh, and if the CGPD is the cheapest way of doing it, I’d love to see you post your numbers. We just want to explore the options, but if you’ve done our legwork for us, go ahead and show it.

Oh, and if one of the best things about CG is the police protection, I need to explore alternative schooling for my children. I’d like to send them somewhere where people fight over keeping teachers more than they fight over two school police officers.

Tony – the budget calls for “less than” $160,000 on security services according to posters elsewhere.

Best I can tell, there are now two CG police officers.

The school budgeted 237,000 in 2008 for three officers according to WTHR.

So if we’re spending $60,000 on the salaries of these two officers, where does the other $100K go?

And by the way, Tony – you have any relationship with either of the CG police officers?

Tony, maybe you’ve let your history of defending police bleed in here, but not once has ANYONE said they don’t want police officers “being there”. Not once has anyone had issues with police officers in general.

You’re welcome to your opinion, but I will disagree with it.

As someone who moved from Wayne Township a decade ago specifically to have my children attend Center Grove schools, I respectfully disagree with your statements.

I do believe that school-specific, school-managed police force is the best way to ensure that my children remain safe at school. I am not interested in seeing responsibility being transfered to JCSD – they have their hands full as it is. I could see that they would “cross-utilize” staff – which would result in less coverage for our schools. Our schools are safe because of the strident security measures that are taken. To even consider shifting responsibility to another entity, all in the name of saving $, at the expense of my chilren’s safety is absurd.

Additionally, your comment that extra curricular activities do not have bearing on a student’s academic success lead me to believe that your own children are ok without extra-curricular activities. That might work well in YOUR FAMILY; however, many kids will perform well academically in order to participate in extra-curricualr activities. My gosh, have you like not even kept pace with the now-famous Michael Oher story. He intently pursued his academics in order to participate in extra-curricular activities. I could rattle off at least a dozen kids at CGHS who are exactly like this. Also, look at any college application – look at any scholarship application – look at any job application – they all want to know what extra curricular activities you are involved in because they know that being involved in such activities is good for them. Wouldn’t it be horrible if CGHS didn’t have a National Honor Society chapter because someone like you was in charge of the funding for it.

I want my property value to remain high – I want my children to be successful. Sorry, your statements are utterly ridiculous – if you don’t want a first-class education for your children and your community, move somewhere else.

The bottom line is the money coming into the general fund is going to be lower and expenses are getting bigger every year…just like anything else. The school is no exception…The school is asking for support to keep the standards of education and activities it currently has. Without the passing of the Referendum…it will impact on EVERY area of the school system …not for the better. By 2011-2012 school year 44 teachers will have to be cut….the numbers don’t lie. You can cut all the administrators and sports programs you want but teachers are going to get effected…that is where the majority of the money goes. (73% of the salaries paid)

http://www.centergrove.k12.in.us/16801033144450807/lib/16801033144450807/General%20Referendum%20Files/bdreport041910.pdf

Tony,
If you do not pay property taxes then you do not pay towards the school. If you do great. The fact is folks your ref has no better than a 50/50 chance. This is due to many reasons and waste of money and resources is part of it. Also I always wonder why you people who mention it is for the children and education is priority ect.. Why do you not send your kids to private school? Also none of you can say the school has not wasted millions in the past 6 years.

I would be interested in knowing your definition or “wasted” All of the “wasted” money get approved by a board that is elected.

The building project was developed to help orchastraight the implementation of Small learning communities. The Administration did not know funding was going to be cut so drastically at the time of its inception. Once it was discovered the building project would have been put on hold. In any building project yes it does take money to draw up plans. In the case of a HS it will be expensive and architects don’t work for free…even for schools

Yes Center Grove’s WONDERFUL technology department is working on laptops for the middle schools students. These fees would then be paid for out of textbook rental charges to the parents. Having a laptop would help the student tremendously and make the need for textbooks less causing the costs of textbook rental to decrees by the use of textbooks on cds for their laptops. Technology is part of the future whether you like it or not.

You cannot compare these two areas with the referendum because the General Fund referendum has absolutely nothing to even to with any type of building project or with technology. The General fund is about people…

I guess I need to post a comment to my own article. Please re-read it before you attack me or those who say vote NO. I am not anti-education, education is important in my family, I have explained that. I do support keeping our schools safe. I do support athletics and other extra-curricular activities, I just think everyone should be treated equally. If band members have to pay to play so should athletes. As in the case of band and choir allowances will be made for those who can’t afford to pay to play.
My reason for voting no is that I don’t believe the current administration is spending the money as efficiently has they can. We have not instituted pay for play, we are, apparently, still sending custodial staff to conferences, we have not explored money saving options such as hiring private cleaning firms to clean the school. We have not made the administration pay the same rate for health care as teachers. Those are just ideas and examples we need to explore.
My only point is a tax increase, no matter how small, should be a last resort. I don’t believe we are at the “last resort” stage yet. That is my final post on this subject.
Thanks to those of you have kept this discussion civil and avoided name calling and telling me to move out of the community.

Teachers are hired to educate the students. Why are they spending classroom time to push their referendum on the students?

Tax dollars put to good use pushing their political agenda in front of a captured audience.

Nicole, glad to see you give up spreading false propaganda that the admin spreads once being confronted with facts. The board has poor backgrounds on managing funds and with a business attitude that is needed. A business attitude is one that approaches costs benefits for the students and what will work in a true budget. Also if they cared so much about the school why do the keep taking their stipend in this poor economic time for the school? Also they do sit around and come up with ways to spend money that is not needed. I have given some examples already.

She lied about the laptops, look it up on the Daily Journal website and the bond issued in Sept. Also you can tout the CG PD all you want buy anyone with any knowledge and common sense knows they could never secure a building with 2 people. Also you are clueless about the procedures I know for a fact that Greenwood and Johnson County SWAT are the main reaction force. Your 2 officers may or may not show up first at one of the schools first. Unless of course you believe they can teleport 20 miles in under 5 minutes, The Johnson County Sheriffs office has a sub station across the street from North Grove. Then again you would know this if you even lived here.

Found more propaganda in my newspaper holder pushing the referendum. Taxpayers dollars at work pushing an agenda that is severely flawed. All the talk about spending more money for a better education.

Home schooling receives zero taxpayer money and by the time the home schoolers go on to college they are much better prepared for the next level of education.

The administration, teachers and others that keep trying to shove this referendum down our throats need to educate themselves on the facts. Emotions and fears are not factual data.

Rich, Name one!

Duane: here you go on schools and educational facilities getting rid of laptops. You people will grasp at anything the Admin says is the new answer. They flip from one thing to another without thinking things through and blowing money that could be better utilized for traditional educational processes that have been proven to work! Oh the articles name more than one, so there I have proven my point and your question.
-Matoaca High School
-Liverpool High School
-Everett A Rea Elementary
-Broward County , Fla School District
and more

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/education/04laptop.html?_r=1

http://www.itwire.com/it-people-news/training/28964-nsw-high-school-laptops-put-to-use-for-games-and-msn-messenger?start=1

http://www.pressherald.com/life/Professors-pull-the-plug-on-laptops.html

Someone please explain why I should support paying more money to a school that offers multiple foreign language courses( japanese, german. french, etc.) that provide little if any benefit to students upon graduation. Offering Spanish is a good idea: the others are a complete waste of money. Until the curriculum is cut back to offering only courses that are really important to a student’s education I will vote “NO”.

Mark,
I agree. If people want the other offerings for their son or daughter they should bear 100% of the cost just as extracurricular activities should. The fact is some of you forget that this is a public school and not a private school. If you so strongly want more and more offerings then send your kids to a private school. Then you can pick up the tab for this directly. However public school is for the general welfare of the majority not the minority number of the students.